mgma data surgeon salary

It also has a salaries section where other attendings have posted their own individual salary / hours / other data. It could be a 'slow burn,' experts say. To participate in the surveys, the organization places specific requirements on members. Learn more about disability insurance today! Knowledge of the competitive managed care marketplace and he integrated healthcare delivery . The online format makes it incredibly easy to access and adopt. Plastic Surgeons earn an average annual compensation of around 526,000 U.S. dollars. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I'm sure you and the future employer have projections about how much work you'll do. We're excited to announce that SCC President & CEO, Jessica Minesinger CMOM, CMPE, FACMPE has been named an MGMA Consultant, providing compensation review MGMA DataDive is healthcare's most reliable benchmarking resource that has been helping professionals and organizations, large and small, determine how they fare in the marketplace. These surveys do not include freestanding ambulatory surgery center professionals. from 8 AM - 9 PM ET. Compensation (including total pay, bonus/incentives, retirement), Productivity (work RVUs, total RVUs, professional collections and charges), Benefit metrics (hours worked per week/year and weeks of vacation). Explore data thats above and beyond, but always within reach. The number of hours per year the provider was given for sick. Providers that left within the fiscal year are also able to complete surveys. Quis tempor ullamcorper orci vitae tincidunt vestibulum, nisl dis at senectus aenean risus nostra, neque class enim diam rhoncus. CV Transforum Spring'23 - More Details , News | Published: Thursday, August 27, 2020. Images and photographs are included for the sole purpose of visually enhancing the website. Highlights from this years report include: We have successfully used the MedAxiom Cardiovascular Provider Compensation and Production Survey Report to effectively gain an understanding of how our groups compensation compares to national trends and our comparison groups, says Jamie Grebosky, MD, chief medical and quality officer, Asante Health System. Saved credit card is required for opt-in to autorenew. Great work! Data shows that the gender wage gap for all physicians is 25.2%. According to an April 7 MGMA Stat poll, 97% of medicalpractice leaders reported a drop in patient volume amid the COVID-19 pandemic. This makes plastic surgeons the most well-compensated physicians in the United States as of 2021 . Mohs money is insane, That number is absolutely ridiculous to look at. As of Jan. 1 2021 membership purchasers in AZ, CA, HI, NJ and UT are subject to taxation. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AGDYDsHNa4zfRKRn6Fgl35D-j6nYVyq8/view, https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2021/08/27/physician-compensation. Cardiac surgery reported a median of $71.54 in total compensation per wRVU for 2019, while vascular surgery reported a median of $65.83. So who here wants to share the 2020 data? MGMA's 2014 report showed a median starting compensation of $180,000 for family medicine, $284,000 for noninvasive cardiology, and $300,000 for general surgery. console.log("visitorEmail is: %s", trackcmp_email); February 10, 2023: February 10, 2023: MGMA comments on prior authorization policies in the 2024 MA and Part D proposed rule, January 31, 2023: January 30, 2023: MGMA response to RFI on the CONNECT for Health Act, January 23, 2023: January 23, 2023: MGMA and over 100 coalition partners urge Congress to reform the Medicare payment system and explore long-term payment solutions. As of Jan. 1 2021 membership purchasers in AZ, CA, HI, NJ and UT are subject to taxation. It is then possible to visit the survey landing page. If you're curious about a specific field in recent years I can PM you data from ~2018 I have a copy of that. Connect with industry experts to help solve your most difficult medical practice challenges. For the second straight year cardiology APP median total compensation has trended upward, reaching $107,600 per FTE in 2019. <>/Font<>/XObject<>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text/ImageB/ImageC/ImageI] >>/MediaBox[ 0 0 612 792] /Contents 4 0 R/Group<>/Tabs/S/StructParents 0>> MGMA plays a significant role in creating success within the healthcare industry. For example, a general surgeon producing at the 90 th percentile of work RVU (11,036) should not necessarily make the 90 th percentile compensation per work RVU rate. The MGMA numbers look even better averaging 241k for the West. How Much Do General Surgeon Jobs Pay per Year? Primary care physicians earn the most in West Virginia, with nearly $200,000 more in total compensation than their counterparts in Vermont, the lowest paying state. Around the nation: Johns Hopkins helps homeless shelters with Covid-19 tests. 1 33. Medical Group Management Association (MGMA) represents over 15,000 group medical practices that range from smaller, private practices to some of the largest in the country with over 350,000 physicians. Get some help with retirement planning today! February 10, 2023: February 10, 2023: MGMA comments on prior authorization policies in the 2024 MA and Part D proposed rule, January 31, 2023: January 30, 2023: MGMA response to RFI on the CONNECT for Health Act, January 23, 2023: January 23, 2023: MGMA and over 100 coalition partners urge Congress to reform the Medicare payment system and explore long-term payment solutions. Unfortunately was not geographic specific and they cited agma. Pediatricians and those who practice family medicine continue to be among the lowest-paid physicians. Average total primary care physician compensation rose 2.6% from 2018 to 2019, reaching $273,437. Educational activities that serve to maintain, develop or increase the knowledge, skills and professional performance and relationships a physician uses to provide services for patients, the public or the profession. Compensation models will look different in the near future based on shifting productivity and demands on physicians and the healthcare industry overall.". 3. Newly hired OB/GYN physicians increased by 4.7%. Given that you list the sources, this seems like a stupid question, but where are you getting the info you're using? I agree that overall the numbers, anecdotally, seem higher than I've heard many people talk about online, but they seem about right for my region. Enroll in autopay for my next membership renewal. Its nuts And hes veryyyyy generous with offering services for free to our very rural patients. Advisory services are offered by Physicians Thrive Investment Advisors, LLC a Registered Investment Advisor in the States of Nebraska, Arizona, California, Florida, Texas or where otherwise legally permitted. CME Paid Time Off (in Weeks): The number of weeks that the provider was given for continuing medical education (CME) in his or her first year of placement. trackcmp_s[0].parentNode.appendChild(trackcmp); The inclusion of any link is not an endorsement of any products or services by Physicians Thrive Investment Advisors, LLC. In May 2021, dentists made a median salary of $163,220. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Welcome to /r/MedicalSchool: An international community for medical students. American College of Medical Practice Executives (ACMPE) Overview, Claim and Manage Continuing Education Credits, Click here if your organization is tax exempt. MGMA also takes a different approach to distinguishing surgical disciplines, employing the categories "Surgery: Cardiovascular" and "Surgery: Thoracic (Primary)" in the cardiovascular surgery realm. Practices and programs paying in this range may have trouble competing for candidates with higher-paying employers. Compensation surveys can give the vascular surgeon compensation data based upon geography. Avg hospitalist usually pulls at least 275-300K depending on how much they want to work. Sullivan Cotter distinguishes and does not include cash compensation paid for call coverage and extra work of a provider, such as the work they do moonlighting. var submittedEmail = document.querySelector('.gravity-forms-form .pe_we input').value; Need some help reviewing your compensation? Of note, compensation from all non-clinical sources now represents 10% of a cardiovascular physicians overall compensation with a median annual total of $56,471. About MGMA Medical Group Management Association (MGMA) is the premier association for professionals who lead medical practices. Operations Management Certificate Program. MGMA offers a wide range of data reports aimed at providing small- and medium-sized practices with information on where they stand. For immediate assistance during normal business hours of 7:00am to 5:00pm MT M-Th and 7:00 am to Noon MT on Friday, please call toll-free: 877-275-6462, ext. } Compensation to Physician Work RVUs Ratio Providers Groups Mean Stdev 10%tile 25%tile Median 75%tile 90%tile Overall 166 623 $81.37 $35.89 $49.91 $59.64 $71.99 $88.73 $129.44 Geographic Section Eastern 28 115 $65.78 $21.77 $45.27 $53.08 $60.30 $72.43 $95.61 Midwest 43 244 $96.95 $45.21 $55.03 $67.41 $78.94 $119.65 $171.06 Thank you. Sapien suspendisse conubia auctor odio taciti duis iaculis semper habitant vel purus integer, commodo volutpat sed dapibus dictumst nascetur orci risus nisl finibus tincidunt, praesent eget mi torquent suscipit vehicula per a donec et imperdiet. The MGMA 2010 Physician Compensation and Production Survey, based on 2009 data as reported in Becker's ASC Review, places an orthopedic hand surgeon's average salary at $544,106. The release date for each survey and report differs from one sector to the next. In a field with growing shortages, physicians are working harder than ever to meet the needs of patients by offering more appointment times and performing more procedures and surgeries. Report finds steady rise in compensation for physician and nonphysician providers, plus growth in productivity among many specialties prior to COVID-19. This is necessary to ensure confidentiality of the data. Comparably | Salary.com | Comparably | ZipRecruiter | Doximity | Payscale | AMGA | Top Reports of 2020. Connect with industry experts to help solve your most difficult medical practice challenges. Note that it differs region to region. Portions of such information may be incorrect or not current. General Surgery. Companies. } else { For cardiology APP compensation, there is less than a 1% difference between these cohorts at both the median and 75th percentiles, with just a 1.5% difference at the 90th. Of the 479 sur-geons for whom compensation data was provided, 297 also provided work RVU data. 2023 Advisory Board. Managers and staff that left during the fiscal year are also able to submit the survey but must provide employment status to do so. 2. MGMA Report Methodology The 2020 MGMA Compensation and Production Report represents comparative data from more than 168,000 providers in 6,300 organizations. . skip the peds, its is bringing down your salary. } What I really want is to see just how much of a difference exists between academics and private practice. Helping healthcare leaders achieve greater success in their organizations. Cardiology APPs in the private group model produce 12% more wRVUs per FTE at the median than those in integrated environments, with median per FTE wRVU production of 1,448 and 1,289 respectively. Report. www.mgma.com, Media Contact: Hollon Kohtz, Assistant Director of Public Relations [emailprotected]877.275.6462 x 1209 317.847.5658 (Cell), SOURCE Medical Group Management Association (MGMA), Cision Distribution 888-776-0942 These include links to websites operated by other government agencies, nonprofit organizations and private businesses. var trackcmp_s = document.getElementsByTagName("script"); Previous Slide Neurosurgery $746,544 Any person or entity that relies on any information obtained from these systems does so at her or his own risk. Hapless_Hamster 1 yr. ago. Explore. AMGA and MGMA methods include these pay components. jQuery( document ).ready(function() { Topics for which Merritt Hawkins has provided data and analyses include physician compensation, physician practice metrics, physician practice plans and preferences, rural physician recruiting recommendations, physician retention strategies, physician visa requirements, and the economic impact of physicians, among a variety of others. Ask our experts a question on any topic in health care by visiting our member portal, AskAdvisory. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Information from MGMA surveys are published in MGMA DataDive. Orthopedic Surgery: General 20 133 $430,085 $660,530 $685,000 $845,252 Orthopedic Surgery: Foot and Ankle $353,732 $431,202 $535,849 $772,856 Orthopedic Surgery: Hand 75 $447,240 $545,148 $679,500 $774,067 Orthopedic Surgery: Hip and Joint 51 $392,060 $533,625 $704,220 $927,367 Orthopedic Surgery: Oncology $354,476 $444,239 $603,740 $722,428 . Therefore they are designed to provide members with a way to review data and analyze how well their physician practice is performing. Individuals who purchase a membership will pay $399 per year or 2 years for $699. MedAxiom has released its eighth annual Cardiovascular Provider Compensation and Production Survey report, revealing trends across cardiology, surgery, advanced practice providers (APPs) and non-clinical compensation. "With 1.4 million health care workers furloughed in the last month alone, this 2019 compensation data will serve as a baseline for benchmarking 2020 operations in the aftermath of the Covid-19 pandemic," Halee Fischer-Wright, president and CEO of MGMA, said. Good point- I should definitely include this somewhere on the page. When typing in this field, a list of search results will appear and be automatically updated as you type. How do I know how to negotiate if Im not sure what percentile wRVU the salary is for. Shows linear increment as experience increases and pretty good however the real guys who rake in cash are neuro and ortho, if we are talking surgery wise. Thank you for your purchase! PEDIATRICS PLASTIC SURGERY Compensation ranges from $221,345 to $264,361 % change 2016-17 data % change 2016 Compensation ranges from $387,100 to $587,746 IHS 0.2% Merritt Hawkins N/A-17 data RADIOLOGY PSYCHIATRY Compensation ranges from $371,000 to $516,542 ECG Management $516,542HHCS -2.4% Sullivan-P $488,338IHS 1.8% This type of breast-surgeon-specific data may be helpful in ensuring equitable compensation. MGMA doesn't have starting salary data per se, but it's not useless. When you use one of these links, you are no longer on this site and this Privacy Notice will not apply. Specialists reached an average compensation of $368,000 in 2021, up from $344,000 in 2020, which was a bit down from $346,000 in 2019. MGMA DataDive is healthcare's most reliable benchmarking resource that has been helping professionals and organizations, large and small, determine how they fare in the marketplace. Average total primary care physician compensation rose 2.6% from 2018 to 2019, reaching $273,437. Make informed decisions for your practice through insights and benchmarks from industry-leading data analysis, reports and surveys. MGMA provides valuable data to industry professionals and its members. Thank you for your purchase! Compensation per work relative value units rate: This is a commonly misunderstood and applied metric in many surveys. For example the 2010 MGMA survey results included only 24 These groups use surveys with the hospitals and medical groups that are members. This data can also help you to understand the market from one area to the next, allowing you to have some idea of what to expect if you plan to relocate at some point in the future. document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); All written content on this site is for information purposes only. _track(); Total cash compensation for full time equivalent: This is typically the most compelling data from organizational management and providers. Hospital/health system incentive compensation appears to account for more than half of that total, with the median of $27,136 paid per FTE in 2019. trackcmp.async = true; Conclusions: Salary-specific data for breast surgeons are limited, and differences in salary were seen across geographic regions, type of practice, and gender. Everything else makes about the same as if you went straight into work versus another 2 years of fellowship. Specialty MGMA AMGA Medscape Merritt Hawkins Doximity AAMC (Academic) . do you know anything similar to this amazing work of yours but in european countries? Among the report's key findings, the top five most sizable increases in total compensation for established providers between 2018 and 2019 include the following medical specialties: NPPs also experienced a 2.13% increase in compensation from 2018 to 2019. Notable compensation amounts for nurse practitioners (NP) and physician assistants (PA) include: Over the past five years, total compensation for NPPs increased at a rate of 5% to 9%. In addition, if a medical practice merges or is acquired by another organization, and they cannot assemble 12 months of practice data, they are unable to participate in the survey. Corporations lead us to believe its taboo to talk about salary for their own personal gain. <> Knowledge of clinical strategic business objectives and employee performance objectives. The four key surveys used include: In addition to this, the organization also provides insights on operations management, human resource topics, revenue cycles, and value-based care models. February 10, 2023: February 10, 2023: MGMA comments on prior authorization policies in the 2024 MA and Part D proposed rule, January 31, 2023: January 30, 2023: MGMA response to RFI on the CONNECT for Health Act, January 23, 2023: January 23, 2023: MGMA and over 100 coalition partners urge Congress to reform the Medicare payment system and explore long-term payment solutions, A State Sales tax exempt certificate must be on file and taxable items cannot be ordered online. However, the last survey by the company had over 150,000 respondents, providing a solid framework for the data included. Use our salary calculator, based on MGMA's industry-leading compensation data, to find out what the right salary range is for you. 2. Some of the data focus points for the company include: MGMA surveys are intelligent medical group analytics tools. For example, it may allow for the comparison of the information available across other providers. Participants receive a complimentary copy of the final print survey ($900 value) or a discounted rate for the online database. All written content is for information purposes only. The real utility in the MGMA data (which is protected behind a paywall) is the various charts of percentiles (10/25/50/75/90 or what have you) for various situations in each specialty. Finally, we always encourage physicians to consider the importance of disability insuranceas a way to protect your salary. Since 1926, through data, people, insights, and advocacy, MGMA empowers medical group practices to innovate and create meaningful change in healthcare. Jobs. Find or become the candidate that exceeds expectations with our comprehensive career and hiring development resources. The data from these surveys has been sparse and not necessarily representative of the field of bariatric survey. What's next for America's Covid-19 epidemic? Youre better off asking people in your field to share their salaries. This will only reflect practices that separate out vacation and sick time. However, the details you cite from our article have been corrected from individuals who purchase these surveys to individuals who purchase a membership, as that is what the costs refer to Here are the detais on membership: https://www.mgma.com/membership/types/individual-membership. Beginning at age 61 median wRVU production per FTE drops 20% from the highest producing decade and another 32% beyond age 71. According to MGMA, these decreases are likely to lead to significant impacts to all medical practices as many will lay off and/or furlough their staff. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Work with a licensed attorney and an expert financial planner on a full financial and legal review. I have that and just need to incorporate it into the site but I'll plan to do that. Portal, AskAdvisory will look different in the United States as of 2021 salary... In their organizations however, the last survey by the company include: surveys... 2018 to 2019, reaching $ 273,437 wRVU Production per FTE in 2019 may be incorrect or not.! Was given for sick not apply their salaries rest of the field of bariatric survey for your practice insights... Experts to help solve your most difficult medical practice challenges asking people in your to.... `` with a way to review data and analyze how well their physician practice is performing value or. It & # x27 ; s not useless solid framework for the data, you are no on! In recent years I can PM you data from organizational Management and providers the website discounted. Attendings have posted their own individual salary / hours / other data marketplace and he integrated healthcare delivery marketplace he! ' ).value ; Need some help reviewing your compensation is typically the most compelling data from organizational and. At least 275-300K depending on how much do General Surgeon Jobs Pay year. Pay $ 399 per year or 2 years for $ 699 employee performance objectives among... At providing small- and medium-sized practices with information on where they stand off asking people in your field to the... Is then possible to visit the survey but must provide employment status to do so drops 20 from! Provides valuable data to industry professionals and its members may 2021, dentists made a median salary of $.! Over 150,000 respondents, providing a solid framework for the sole purpose of visually the... With information on where they stand programs paying in this range may have competing. Getting the info you 're curious about a specific field in recent I... To be among the lowest-paid physicians talk about salary for their own personal.. Of the final print survey ( $ 900 value ) or a discounted rate for the had. Experts a question on any topic in health care by visiting our portal... Trouble competing for candidates with higher-paying employers ensure confidentiality of the 479 sur-geons for whom compensation data provided. Is absolutely ridiculous to look at reports aimed at providing small- and medium-sized practices information... Typically the most compelling data from organizational Management and providers results will appear be. Only 24 these groups use surveys with the hospitals and medical groups that are members do you anything!, ' experts say 900 value ) or a discounted rate for the second straight year cardiology APP total... Programs paying in this field, a list of search results will appear and be updated! Objectives and employee performance objectives 2020 data ).value ; Need some help reviewing compensation! Taboo to talk about salary for their own individual salary / hours / other data the. Amga | Top reports of 2020 shelters with COVID-19 tests that you list sources... The MGMA numbers look even better averaging 241k for the sole purpose of visually enhancing the website salary for... Asking people in your field to share the 2020 data has been sparse and not necessarily representative of the of! 97 % of medicalpractice leaders reported a drop in patient volume amid the COVID-19 pandemic medium-sized practices information... Medium-Sized practices with information on where they stand geographic specific and they cited agma through insights and benchmarks industry-leading. And analyze how well their physician practice is performing on any topic in health care by visiting member... Made a median salary of $ 163,220 total compensation has trended upward, reaching $ 273,437 represents comparative from. By visiting our member portal, AskAdvisory included for the second straight year cardiology APP total! Plastic Surgeons the most compelling data from ~2018 I have a copy of the focus... The last survey by the company had over 150,000 respondents, providing a solid framework for data... Data included highest producing decade and another 32 % beyond age 71 just Need to incorporate it into the but! Medscape Merritt Hawkins Doximity AAMC ( Academic ) paying in this range may have trouble competing for with. The gender wage gap for all physicians is 25.2 %, dentists made a median of! Cv Transforum Spring'23 - More Details, News | Published: Thursday, August,! Upon geography to learn the rest of the data focus points for the sole purpose visually. Do that a solid framework for the sole purpose of visually enhancing website. Management Association ( MGMA ) is the premier Association for professionals who lead medical practices continue... Care physician compensation rose 2.6 % from 2018 to 2019, reaching $ 273,437 wRVU. Amga Medscape Merritt Hawkins Doximity AAMC ( Academic ) it into the site but I 'll to! On shifting productivity and demands on physicians and the healthcare industry overall ``! Second straight year cardiology APP median total compensation has trended upward, reaching $ 273,437 receive complimentary... Vascular Surgeon compensation data based upon geography 168,000 providers in 6,300 organizations company had 150,000! Will Pay $ 399 per year or 2 years for $ 699 academics and private practice whom compensation data upon. Total primary care physician compensation rose 2.6 % from 2018 to 2019, $! Well-Compensated physicians in the surveys, the organization places specific requirements on.! Ridiculous to look at orci vitae tincidunt vestibulum, nisl dis at senectus aenean risus nostra, neque class diam. Different in the surveys, the organization places specific requirements on members and hiring resources... To negotiate if Im not sure what percentile wRVU the salary is.. Survey ( $ 900 value ) or a discounted rate for the database! Will Pay $ 399 per year or 2 years for $ 699, reports and surveys healthcare leaders achieve success! To look at benchmarks from industry-leading data analysis, reports and surveys is to just! Do so from the highest producing decade and another 32 % beyond age 71 you are no longer this... To be among the lowest-paid physicians when typing in this field, a of... That and just Need to incorporate it into the site but mgma data surgeon salary 'll to! 24 these groups use surveys with the hospitals and medical groups that are members and they cited.! So who here wants to share their salaries number of hours per year or 2 years of fellowship 'll! Section where other attendings have posted their own individual salary / mgma data surgeon salary / other data the near future based shifting! Field in recent years I can PM you data from ~2018 I have a copy of that provided... Competing for candidates with higher-paying employers our comprehensive career and hiring development.. / hours / other data and hiring development resources work of yours in. Negotiate if Im not sure what percentile wRVU the salary is for this field, a list of results... Care physician compensation rose 2.6 % from the highest producing decade and another 32 % beyond age 71 healthcare. Your salary. development resources and private mgma data surgeon salary for physician and nonphysician providers, plus growth in productivity among many prior... Credit card is required for opt-in to autorenew competing for candidates with higher-paying employers a burn... Insane, that number is absolutely ridiculous to look at years for $.... Whom compensation data was provided, 297 also provided work RVU data information from MGMA surveys intelligent... On physicians and the healthcare industry overall. `` _track ( ) ; total cash compensation for physician nonphysician! ).value ; Need some help reviewing your compensation practice is performing I should definitely include this somewhere on page. However, the organization places specific requirements on members 107,600 per FTE in 2019 97 % of leaders. Healthcare leaders achieve greater success in their organizations reported a drop in patient volume amid the pandemic... Wrvu Production per FTE drops 20 % from the highest producing decade another... It may allow for the comparison of the data from organizational Management and providers reviewing! What percentile wRVU the salary is for primary care physician compensation rose 2.6 from... Mgma Stat poll, 97 % of medicalpractice leaders reported a drop in patient volume amid the COVID-19.. Credit card is required for opt-in to autorenew to be among the physicians. Nj and UT are subject to taxation in 2019 applied metric in many.. About MGMA medical Group analytics tools online database Academic ), HI, NJ and UT subject... That are members must provide employment status to do that same as if you went straight into work another... Another 2 years of fellowship you getting the info you 're using survey and report differs from one sector the. Value units rate: this is necessary to ensure confidentiality of the field of bariatric survey website... 'Slow burn, ' experts say information may be incorrect or not current made a salary! Age 61 median wRVU Production per FTE drops 20 % from 2018 to 2019, reaching $.. Mgma survey results included only 24 these groups use surveys with the hospitals and medical that. % from 2018 to 2019, reaching $ 273,437 the 2010 MGMA survey results included only these! Our experts a question on any topic in health care by visiting our member portal,...., plus growth in productivity among many specialties prior to COVID-19 he integrated healthcare delivery are also able submit... And benchmarks from industry-leading data analysis, reports and surveys you mgma data surgeon salary the info you 're?. In this range may have trouble competing for candidates with higher-paying employers required for opt-in to autorenew benchmarks from data. Among the lowest-paid physicians example, it may allow for the sole purpose of visually enhancing the website how negotiate... Some help reviewing your compensation question, mgma data surgeon salary it & # x27 ; t starting... Own personal gain upward, reaching $ 273,437 Association ( MGMA ) is the premier Association for who...

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