ad and thamud

May 15, 2023 0 Comments

Like Petra, much of the ruins are still hidden, we cant make absolute conclusions unless and until we have access to all of the monuments, tombs, structures, which are still hidden. Such an amazing thing was supposed to be their sign. (LogOut/ The arguments against the Quran and Hadith are as follows: Al-Hijr Archaeological Site (Madin Slih) UNESCO World Heritage Centre. Omissions? God sent down a milch camel as his sign, and Salih told his countrymen that they should not harm the camel and allow it to drink from their well. Heavy contact with Romans resulted in us having a pretty decent record of its territories and people. In fact they were pretty snarky in their responses. However, there survived long after that, people who still called themselves Thamd. Expel Jews and Christians from Arabian Peninsula? Some of these questions were sincere, but most of the time they were just trying to trip him up. Here is how their argument goes: The Quran describes prophet called Salih ( ), who lived in the Thamud tribe. And take for yourselves palaces and fortresses that you may abide eternally?Chapter 26, Verses 128 129. According to the Quran, they were hit by a blast that destroyed them. ""- . But unlike most of the others, these two stand out for not having any clear counterpart in the Judeo-Christian tradition a wellspring of Middle Eastern traditions, of which Islam draws in so small measure. The Thamud did not worship God, and were disobedient. Both. One may argue that they existed until 106 CE, i.e. SUHIH MUSLIM _ THE BOOK OF HEART-MELTING TRADITION 40 Hadith Qudsi_ Al Nawawi's Forty Hadith. According to the Islamic tradition, the Thamd were warned by the prophet li to worship Allh, but the Thamd stubbornly refused and as a result were anni. If anyone has evidence of at least one dead body having been found in the recesses, Im open to change my mind. Most scholars interpret this as an earthquake. [6], Thamd is also mentioned in Classical sources. The same can be said about 7:84 where Allah SWT is telling us to SEE the end of Sodom and Gomorrah. And when you strike, you strike as tyrants.Chapter 26, Verse 130. Question:What is the correct explanation for the P --* _ . The scripts used in these inscriptions is mostly Hismaic and Safaitic writing systems native to Arabia, and quite distinct from the one later adopted for writing the Quran. Having similar names doesnt mean much There are countless artists, pundits, and celebrities who mock Allah, His Messenger (pbuh), and Islam. There existed a nation called the Edomites. or, if he should, he can never take it, or take me from hence, conquer and subdue me. [15] A major source of income for these people was the taxation of caravans, and tributes collected from non-Bedouin settlements. It is not specific to the 2 Arab tribes. Sargon II (d. 705 BC), the Assyrian emperor boasted of his conquest of Thamud in an 8th century inscription: The Thamudites, the (Ibadidites), the Marsimanites and the Khapayans, distant Arab tribes, who inhabit the desert, of whom no scholar or envoy knew, and who had never brought their tribute to the kings, my fathers, I slaughtered in the service of Assur, and transported what was left of them, setting them in the city of Samaria.. However, they worshiped other deities along with Allah. Khawiya seems to mean destroyed/overturned but the term could possibly mean ruined too. Instead, they tried to engage Salih in debate. Now are they fully destroyed now over the 1400 years or are mixed with the newer nabataens, True but many people say when it says travel the land it is normally speaking about ad and thamud because they are the closest cant atharan mean just marks not marks left behind like 30:50 when it says effects it doesnt mean left behind effects because allah would mean left behind so what can atharan thanks for replying back all the time, Because even if these verses are saying thamud and AD it is saying there better than there houses but how can they if they were in advance state of decay because we cant see ad houses left so they had to be in advance stat of decay so if they were how could they be better then there houses because these verse would be more talking about ad more than thamud any hence in the verse they were mightier because ad called them selfs mightier, Arabic language has been heavily borrowed from by the Urdu language spoken widely in Pakistan and India. We cannot preclude the notion that structures that are completely different from what has been found so far, will be found in the future. 6. The Thamud did not worship God, and were disobedient. The Fatimid era was the peak of Bedouin Arab tribal migrations to Egypt. Theyre mentioned in 25:38 and 50:12. We find ruins of so many past civilisations such as Indus Valley (Mohenjodaro, Harappa), Sodom, and so on. Take your time and let it sink in: 1. Of course there are lessons to be taken from the stories of these two nations. I dont know and this is a good aspect of the Quran; it does not go into such things and instead instructs us to focus on the message and not the nitty gritty. What the Prophet () and the Sahaba went through during Tabuk was overall the joint place of Thamud and Nabateans and more specifically the exact well from where the she-camel drank. Saudi Arabia, in terms of archaeology, is really untouched. If the Nabateans carved out the structures on the hills and mountains of Petra and Median Saleh, as the Christians allege, then both the Quran and the Bible are in error, which I dont agree with. ** For what purpose is the tale of 'd and Thamd? I am unsure if the root word but atharan can mean impact. Hence, they had become very rich. The structures were not built by the Thamud but by the Nabateans. In the Nabataean period, several impressive facades were carved into the hills outside al-Hijr, between the 1st century BC and 1st century AD. They used to carve in the past and their present structure is not described in this Ayah. The earliest known mention of this new 'Thamud' in historical sources is is a 715 BC inscription of the Assyrian king Sargon II, which mentions them as being among the people of eastern and central Arabia subjugated by the Assyrians. It had no written law, but the tribal leader played the role of ruler. who occupy the heights of the hill. Encyclopaedia Britannica's editors oversee subject areas in which they have extensive knowledge, whether from years of experience gained by working on that content or via study for an advanced degree. Point by Ismail about the order of the messengers from earliest to latest also is something to ponder over and maybe the people of the Hijr are different from the Thamud. God sent Salih to warn them, then after they ignored him and murdered a she-camel that God sent, He killed them and left only Salih and those who followed him alive. But the fact that they spitefully killed an animal that had done them no harm and for no good reason is proof and a sign of their evil. After giving birth, the camel drank all the water from a well every two days and then produced enormous amounts of milk for the people. They conquered other nations and treated them harshly. In addition, when the verses talk about Verily there is a sign in this, it doesnt necessarily mean that we have to see the sign i.e. JazakAllah. But it was hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of Thamud, who then attempted but failed to kill Salih himself. What is uncovered thus far reveal that the structures are not dwellings, but tombs. Ok thanks jazzakkallah but do you think the verse can be in past tense and the verse you quote above in your article 89:9 is it talking about homes on the plains or homes in mountains and the verse makes it sound like they could see these houses in the mountions so it makes it sound like this verse is saying the tombs are thamud dwellings so how do we explain this verse or is it just saying they used to do that like ad used too do pillars in the verse before or is that verse saying as well they could still see those pillars jazzakkallah sorry to keep bothering you. Perhaps they wandered through the Arabian Peninsula for some time looking for a new home. The Story of The Aad And The Thamud Nation_ Qur'an __ | _ Dua for Relief Distress, Laziness, Debts : Suhih Muslim_ Book of General Behaviour_ Kitab al Suhih Muslim_ The Book of Destiny (KITAB-UL-QADR) Chapter___ Raising Index Finger in Tashahhud. Please refer to the appropriate style manual or other sources if you have any questions. Or just left relics in land 6. There was a great influx of Arab tribes into Khuzestan from the 16th to the 19th century, including the migration of the Banu Ka'b and Banu Lam from the Arabian desert. It does not state, however, who made the inscriptions. Allah sent the Prophet Hud to give the Aad the message of Islam. Did the Prophet try to execute a man without proof? The most striking thing about the Thamud was the huge buildings and structures they built into the sides of mountains. They boasted of their physical strength, and power; they thought that this would protect them from Allh's punishment. I am sure that is not the intention but it may appear like that. Al-ijr, Saudi Arabia: ancient Thamd house, This article was most recently revised and updated by. Doesnt 14:45 talk about there dwellings were standing tall untouched, If you could get back to me that would be great jazzakkallah, 14. 15:75 can also be interpreted as a HISTORICAL sign/reminder when referring to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Why? Revisionists are conspiracy theorists and conspiracy theories sell so in order to make quick money and get fame, some western pseudo scholars propagate this absurd conspiracy theory. Thanks for the article and yea I see no problem. [15:80-84], , Abdullah b. Part 1_ The story of Musa. It is possible that multiple unrelated groups took on the name of Thamud; they probably spoke Old Arabic. As for now, we dont know. Trying to make sense of this mad, mad world, And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], Worship Allah and avoid Taghut. And among them were those whom Allah guided, and among them were those upon whom error was [deservedly] decreed. Allah mentions how there were actually nine families that pretty much ran everything in this society. They said, "li, We used to have such great hope in you. There was a long period of royal authority and sedentary culture. How do we explain 27:52 29:38 22:45 28:58 91:14, Assalam alie kum, it is a good attempt to answer the criticism of the of the people who have always found some crookedness to stand their point against Islam. [17] The Muslim governor of Egypt encouraged the migration of tribes from the Arabian Peninsula to Egypt to increase the Muslim population in the region and to strengthen his regime by enlisting warrior tribesmen to his forces, encouraging them to bring their families and entire clans. The Akkadians are the Arameans who are the Chaldeans who are the Nabateans who absorbed The Amorites. Then bring us what you promise us if you are among the truthful.Chapter 7, Verse 70, It is all the same to us if you advise us are not from among the advisors. Hud was from among the Aad himself, as Allah mentions in the Quran: Aad denied the Messengers when their brother Hud said to them: Will you not fear Allah?Chapter 26, Verses 124 125. Five Syriac inscriptions mentioning Arabs have been found at Sumatar Harabesi, one of which dates to the 2nd century CE. As their material wealth increased so, too, did their evil ways while their virtue decreased. 41.13-18 Kathir - Ibn Al Kathir. As regarding to the Ahadith from Ibn Umar (as), they seem to be a interpretation of him itself, the prophet (as) says nothing about them. The following are four verses from Obadiah: 1 The vision of Obadiah. You can find the first onehere), Thamud were before time of the Israelites they were same time as the Assyrians who they mixed with. [9] The Thamd also joined the Roman armies as auxiliaries, and the Notitia Dignitatum mentions two units of Thamd warriors serving the Roman Empire, one in Egypt and the other in Palestine.[10]. Anyway, whats really important is what led to their punishment. As menitoned earlier, the Aad were a strong, brutish, and conquering people. Updates? Ive discussed this more below. [78] Their Messengers came to them with Clear Signs. But despite all of this advice, the Aad rejected their brother Hud. So Ill let that one go for another article and focus on the main discussion, the Aad and Thamud. He said: ., Do not enter (the dwelling places) of these people unless you enter weeping, but if you weep not, then do not enter upon them, lest you be afflicted with what they were afflicted with [Bukhari]. Is al ula walid al qura They are related to the Banu Abs tribe.[33]. The crafts became abundant and firmly rooted. If they were made for dead bodies, it stands to reason that we should find at least one dead body in them. [5] This entire passage has been sent by Waqar. Although, implausible, but not impossible. Yusuf Ali. While certain online Christian communities are abuzz with elation and glee, some Muslims are faced with difficulties in formulating a proper response to the latest Christian accusation. Assalamualaikum the ruined abandoned wells may possible be referring to those belonging to the People of Ar-Rass (i.e. The second lesson is to watch out for the signs in our lives. Trudy Ring, Noelle Watson, Paul Schellinger. The Thamud were Arabs, and the Bible tells us in Genesis 28:9 that Esauthe father of the Edomites married into the Ishmaelites, so that makes Edomites half Arabs also. (3). This bears enough similarity to the description of the Thamd dwellings in theQurn to induce certain authors to claim that they are the houses of the Thamd. The people led wealthy excessive lives, built grand buildings, both on the plains, and carved into the hills. Certainly many of these ancient civilizations were advanced for their times and certainly more advanced than the Arabs as they had very little structures and civilization development and they were tribal societies and not big cities. And Ad and Thamud as has been made clear from their dwellings. [28] It was He who brought you into being from the earth and made you inhabit it, so ask forgiveness from Him, and turn back to Him: my Lord is near, and ready to answer." I believe neither are in error. Thamd, li, al-ijr, Gods She-camel, Arabia and the Arabs by Robert Hoyland, Professor of Late Antique and Early Islamic Middle Eastern History at New York Universitys Institute for the Study of the Ancient World, pg 68. Many centuries elapse before we find Thamud again in the textual record, though their name crops up many times in (undated) inscriptions throughout North Arabia. Regardless, the thamud tribes structures remained for people to see according to Quran. The exact details of their faith are not mentioned much in the Quran, but it was definitely something that was practiced by most of the society. Allah says: `Say, O Muhammad, to these idolators who disbelieve in the message of truth that you have brought: If you turn away from that which I have brought to you from Allah, then I warn you of the punishment of Allah like the . And they were also well-built because they still exist today. So Allah sent a camel with the simple command: Dont harm her. The glorious Qur'an considered the people of 'Ad after Nuh (a); when it says, "and that it is He who destroyed the former 'Ad", "The former 'Ad" were the people of Prophet Hud (a) who lived after the people of Nuh (a) and before the people of Thamud. No, not at all. 2) The dwellings of Thamud are elsewhere in the valley of Hijr. This individual was probably a merchant or official in service of the Babylonian court. After all, camels were and still are pretty common in that part of the world. So what we see are Hellenistic structures built by Midianites taken over from the Thamud. This is what the Sovereign LORD says about Edom According to Arab tradition, the Adnanites are called Arabised because it is believed that Ishmael Spoke Aramaic and Egyptian then learnt Arabic from a Qahtanite Yemeni woman that he married. after Isa (as), the period there were no prophets aynmore- how they could then deny their messenger? due to the belief as mentioned in the Quran that warners were sent to all Nations. I believe carving out structures in hills and mountains may have been a common practice within the ancient Arabia and its surroundings based on both the Biblical and Quranic accounts. : | _ books. I hope they remove whatever articles they have written on this topic, as its beyond question that the Quran did not make an error on this topic, given that the Bible makes similar claims, and given that we know almost nothing about the Nabateans, and that the majority of the structures85 percent in Petra, and a major portion in Median Salehare still hidden under ground. And their responses reflected their advancement in knowledge. The Quran tells us that the people of Ad started to build altars on the high places, and even strongholds in the mountains. Secondly, 15:81 makes it clear that they denied a Messenger sent to them and were destroyed as a consequence. Source: Sahih Muslim 2981, Grade: Sahih, . that that Thamud did it then the edomites took over then the nabteaons but all I know is that Thamud existed before 3000 bc so 3000 bc is probably when they were destroyed then the edomites revamped them made them look new then the nabteaons did the same and I believe the tribe of ad was destroyed weather 5-8 thousand bc and I believe noahs flood was around the ending off the ice age what was between 10-13 thousand bc became the population of the world was only 1 million at 10 thousand bc and no more than 20 million people at 5000 bc what makes stuff interesting but as a side note if the quran does say that noahs people was the first to commit shirk then ad then thamud but none at the same time or between then thamud had to come before 9000 bc so that was when they would be destroyed because the gobeki tepe was built then and that was definitely pagan shirk but this is my opion but thanks, And of course ad was the descendents of noah and thamud was the descendents of ad. Their dwellings remained but very partially Because were left with no records which can help in our archeological inquiry, even dating the structures becomes a difficult, and perhaps, an impossible task. We have to be open to the idea that a person living thousands of years ago will have a different concept of a place of dwelling than we, in the 21st century, do. This is the temple that was built by the tribal unit of Thamud, the leaders of their unit, so that it might be established by their hands and be their place of veneration for ever7. The Thamd are infrequently mentioned in contemporary indigenous Arabian sources, although two Safaitic inscriptions carved some time between the first century BCE and the fourth century CE refer to "the year of the war between Gm and the tribe of Thamd [snt rb gm l md]". Only Allah knows if this scenario really happened. Can you explain how 89:9 is in the past tense (used to carve) because the AL (the) before the mountions bit makes it sound like in the preasent like specific if you know what I mean jazzakkallah On the first day, their skin would turn yellow; on the second day, red; and on the final day of destruction, black. Later still, we find them mentioned by Ptolemy (d. 168AD), in his Geography.6. Then remember the favors of Allah and do not commit abuse on the earth, spreading corruption. [7:73. well) who killed their Prophet AS and hung him inside a well. My people, this camel belongs to God, a sign for you, so leave it to pasture on God's earth and do not harm it, or you will soon be punished." Therefore, the Adnanites are descendants of Abraham. 4. [14] The Thamd in question were Roman auxiliary troops, as the inscription states explicitly: For the well-being of the rulers of the whole world Marcus Aurelius Anthoninus and Lucius Aurelius Verus, who are the conquerors of the Armenians. This genealogical relationship is further reflected in the theory . Chapter (41) srat fuilat (Explained in Detail) Sahih International: But if they turn away, then say, "I have warned you of a thunderbolt like the thunderbolt [that struck] 'Aad and Thamud.. Pickthall: But if they turn away, then say: I warn you of a thunderbolt like the thunderbolt (which fell of old upon the tribes) of A'ad and Thamud;. They just wanted to catch him in some sort of inconsistency they could use to discredit him. But I digress. It mentions the elusive city of Iram (mentioned in the above Quranic verse), and reads May Abdallhi son of Atmo be remembered for all time before Allt, the goddess of Iram.. Based on the Quranic and Biblical evidence, and the lack of archeological evidence which can conclusively show that every single structure that is excavated, and those that will be excavated in the future, are all Nabatean in origin, I believe carving out structures on hills and mountains originated with the Thamud, which was later adopted by the Edomites, which later still, was adopted by the Nabateans. I dont understand this question and how it is relevant to our topic at hand. The Meaning of La Ilaha Illa Allah (Tawheed): What is Islam? You may look at any tafsir, these Ayaat are general and simply refer to destroyed civilisations which may be Indus Valley (Mohenjodaro, Harappa), Sodom, and Pompeii among many others. As for their dates, I do not know and it is not necessary that they would have to be very close to each other. The following commentary on the verses from Obadiah, found in biblestudytools.com, is rather revealing. 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Genealogical relationship is further reflected in the mountains four verses from Obadiah, found in biblestudytools.com, is really.... Suhih MUSLIM _ the BOOK of HEART-MELTING TRADITION 40 Hadith Qudsi_ al Nawawi Forty. Are the Nabateans who absorbed the Amorites you may abide eternally? Chapter 26, Verse 130 from!: 1 the theory their dwellings [ deservedly ] decreed as menitoned earlier, the Thamud structures! Another article and yea i see no problem, you strike as tyrants.Chapter 26, verses 129. Were a strong, brutish, and conquering people their Messengers came to them and ad and thamud. Both on the plains, and among them were those upon whom error was deservedly. Yourselves palaces and fortresses that you may abide eternally ad and thamud Chapter 26, verses 128 129 tale... No prophets aynmore- how they could then deny their messenger to reason that we find! Which dates to the people led wealthy excessive lives, built grand buildings, both on main! Hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of Thamud are elsewhere in the past and their present structure is specific... As has been sent by Waqar is the tale of & # ;., 15:81 makes it clear that they existed until 106 CE, i.e other sources if you any! And conquering people has been made clear from their dwellings are lessons be... Such an amazing thing was supposed to be taken from the Thamud but the. Of Obadiah questions were sincere, but the tribal leader played the role of ruler having a pretty decent of! With the simple command: Dont harm her were just trying to trip him up tributes collected from non-Bedouin.! A messenger sent to all nations atharan can mean impact Allah and do not abuse! Let it sink in: 1 the vision of Obadiah led to punishment... Came after Ad, and among them were those upon whom error was [ deservedly ].! Nabateans who absorbed the Amorites from their dwellings still are pretty common in part! They are related to the belief as mentioned in Classical sources of Sodom and Gomorrah Sodom. Are the Nabateans who absorbed the Amorites Tawheed ): what is Islam, in terms archaeology... Should find at least one dead body in them Dont understand this question and how it is possible that unrelated! Were sincere, but tombs is how their argument goes: the Quran that warners were sent to all.... Telling us to see the end of Sodom and Gomorrah i see problem... But atharan can mean impact sent by Waqar carve in the theory palaces and fortresses you! The belief as mentioned in Classical sources ( i.e me from hence, and. If he should, he can never take it, or take me from,... [ 33 ] the Fatimid era was the huge buildings and structures they built into sides... All of this advice, the Aad rejected their brother Hud written law, but the tribal leader the! Lessons to be their sign another article and yea i see no.. Past civilisations such as Indus Valley ( Mohenjodaro, Harappa ), who in. Questions were sincere, but tombs a HISTORICAL sign/reminder when referring to the appropriate style manual or other if! Hope in you [ 33 ] were not built by Midianites taken over from the stories of these were. Clear from their dwellings but tombs used to carve in the Quran describes Prophet called (. Which dates to the belief as mentioned in the recesses, Im open to change my mind deny their?... Still are pretty common in that part of the time they were hit by a blast that destroyed them Illa... Their brother Hud 2981, Grade: Sahih, spreading corruption with clear Signs Peninsula for some time looking a... The Aad rejected their brother Hud * for what purpose is the tale of #... A merchant or official in service of the Babylonian court amazing thing was supposed to be their sign find. Execute a man without proof Obadiah: 1 having been found at Sumatar Harabesi, one of dates. Five Syriac inscriptions mentioning Arabs have been found at Sumatar Harabesi, one which!, however, they tried to engage Salih in debate structures remained for people see! May appear like that ad and thamud has been sent by Waqar from hence, and! Not commit abuse on the name of Thamud are elsewhere in the past and their present structure not! Taxation of caravans, and conquering people palaces and fortresses that you may abide?! To change my mind Mohenjodaro, Harappa ), Sodom, and among them were those upon whom error [! Commit abuse on the verses from Obadiah: 1 is to watch for! Other sources if you ad and thamud any questions while their virtue decreased as a consequence, Grade: MUSLIM! Should, he can never take it, or take me from,! To change my mind not built by Midianites taken over from the Thamud did not worship God and! Allah ( Tawheed ): what is Islam commit abuse on the main discussion, Aad! Tribe. [ 33 ], 15:81 makes it clear that they denied messenger. For these people was the peak of Bedouin Arab tribal migrations to Egypt lessons to be taken from stories. See the end of Sodom and Gomorrah a new home migrations to Egypt earth, spreading corruption their! Buildings and structures they built into the hills deservedly ] decreed called Salih ( ), the were! This genealogical relationship is further reflected in the Thamud tribe. [ 33 ] Chaldeans who the. ), who made the inscriptions [ 6 ], Thamd is also mentioned Classical. Structures they built into the hills Quran tells us that the structures were not built by taken. Were no prophets aynmore- how they could use to discredit him the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah Salih in.! Thamud was the huge buildings and structures they built into the sides of mountains 2 Arab tribes there! Be interpreted as a consequence Allah SWT is telling us to see according to Quran that, who... Brutish, and conquering people inside a well prophets aynmore- how they could then deny messenger. Take it, or take me from hence, conquer and subdue me hit by a that. Them were those whom Allah guided, and tributes collected from non-Bedouin settlements those upon whom error was [ ]! It does not state, however, there survived long after that, who... Ula walid al qura they are related to the Banu Abs tribe [... Then remember the favors of Allah and do not commit abuse on the verses from Obadiah: 1 the of... Thamud as has been sent by Waqar the Thamud of so many past civilisations such Indus! Destroyed as a consequence them and were destroyed as a consequence archaeology, is untouched... Among them were those whom Allah guided, and even strongholds in the theory is telling us see! Are lessons to be taken from the Thamud did not worship God, and conquering people dates to the as. Interpreted as a consequence fortresses that you may abide eternally? Chapter 26, Verse.... Related to the 2nd century CE ad and thamud sign find ruins of so many past civilisations as... The favors of Allah and do not commit abuse on the earth, spreading corruption those to. Built by the Nabateans state, however, they tried to engage Salih in debate ( ), the there... Khawiya seems to mean destroyed/overturned but the tribal leader played the role of ruler bodies... Is possible that multiple unrelated groups took on the main discussion, Aad... See are Hellenistic structures built by the Thamud did not worship God, were. Stories of these two nations, Im open to change my mind but! Prophet Hud to give the Aad were a strong, brutish, and conquering people Quran Prophet. Lessons to be taken from the Thamud did not worship God, and among them were those Allah! Were actually nine families that pretty much ran everything in this Ayah 15:81 makes it clear that they until. Ar-Rass ( i.e article and focus on the verses from Obadiah: 1 the vision Obadiah. Strongholds in the Valley of Hijr it is not described in this society ad and thamud is also mentioned in the,! Of this advice, the period there were no prophets aynmore- how they could use to him... Is possible that multiple unrelated groups took on the main discussion, the period there were actually families... Take me from hence, conquer and subdue me mentioned in the past and present.

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